Any advice from ex opiate addicts, please?
Hi, I am from the UK and on a methodone script after being addicted to heroin for 20 years. I have only found out about Kratom this week and with me due to reduce and come off the methadone in the next couple of months would love any help from people who have had a similar experience. I am basically clueless and this forum is my first port of call, I know nothing....apart from there are 3 strains and it comes from a plant from south asia? Did you get clean and then use kratom? Did you use it to get clean? What did you take and for how long? Did you find it hard to stop using kratom? Anything in this area would be such agreat help to me and thankyou for reading, love and light GPE.
First I want to welcome you to the forum. I absolutely know you will get the information you need here as there have been many posts from other opiate users who have been successful when using Kratom.
My own story is prescription oxycodone for chronic pain, so not quite the same situation but still an opiate. When the doc said it was time to stop we did a slow taper which worked BUT I was still in pain so Kratom has helped me not only in coming off the oxy BUT in managing chronic pain.
There are lots of different ways to do this, but I will wait to see if other heroin users can weigh in on the matter as they would be more expert.
Starting dose is suggested at 2 gms BUT many heroin users need much more than that, however, it is a good place to start.
I am hoping that other former heroin users can give good advice as to suitable strains, but I wanted to give you a great big welcome and let you know we will help in whatever way we can. This is a very supportive community.
If you are ready, Kratom can help to ease withdrawal symptoms. Many are astonished at how well it works BUT it is different for everyone so you have to be willing to experiment a bit. I wish there was a recipe for you but there isn't. It is highly individual.
I stopped oxycodone cold turkey and start using Kratom BUT my opiate dose was low and only once per day. No withdrawal whatsoever.
As you are waiting for responses here, try a search on the forum here for heroin withdrawal and see what pops up. I would also suggest you search on digestive issues as that is a very informative thread.
Welcome to the start of the first day of the rest of your life!
"Fewer faces and more spaces"
From my own experience...I was first addicted to hydrocodone, taking up to 80mg a day or more for 5 years, got clean from them with Kratom. Then I was introduced to heroin about a year after stopping pain pills, and I thought I could control myself, and my usage, thought since I was only smoking it and snorting it, I wasn't in danger....by the end of that year, I was injecting 2+ grams a day, along with smoking a gram of crack cocaine per day. All the while I had Kratom in my cabinet. January 9, 2017 I had a choice to make. Lose what little family I had left, or quit. That day started the worst detox of my life! I wanted to ease it with Kratom, but constant vomiting even with anti vomit prescription medication, kept me from being able to use Kratom. It took 9 days of brutal detox before I could keep a dose of Kratom down. On the 9th of this month, I celebrated 8months clean! I skipped the methadone, and suboxen treatment, because I couldn't afford it to be honest....funny how addicts can afford a 2+ gram addiction, but not treatment! Anyways, I now use Kratom on a daily basis to ease my Rheumatoid Arthritis, and I have ran out of Kratom while waiting on funds to get more, and imo, and knowing how withdrawals feel from different substances, running out of Kratom is nothing compared to the withdrawals from hard drugs. I equate it to being used to having no pain, and feeling normal, to just feeling every joint that hurts, and being tired...it can be uncomfortable, but nothing compared to what I've been through! Like stopping caffeine. You got this! Let Kratom change your life too! Getting down to the lowest dose of methadone before taking Kratom will help it's effects to be better, and I'd still start out at the lowest recommended dose of Kratom, then work up from there. Red veins are best for opiate withdrawals, but mixing vein colors can be beneficial as well...I'm here if you have questions 🙂
Welcome GPE, Glad to meet you. I can understand a little of what you are going through. I was addicted for about 5 years on & off to any Opiates & Benzos & any other Pills that I could get my hands on. I was the worst addict that there is until I found The Heavenly Kratom. I just went cold turkey & starting taking Kratom & I had very little withdrawals because of Kratom. That was about 8 years ago & I still am a daily user of Kratom but I would have been dead or in jail if not for Kratom.
I know that I am Addicted to Kratom but it's because I am the worst Addict that you can Imagine. I've been taking Kratom daily for almost 8 years now & I have had very little side effects. Kratom should really help with the Withdrawals & help you get off of any drugs that you are using. Also you could look into Agmatine. I have heard that it is supposed to help Withdrawals as well. Good Luck GPE.
This site has been very helpful to me:
Life Is Like Teaching Sanskrit To A Pony.
Intelligence is like a river. The deeper it is... the less noise it makes.
madmaxnightrider - you are a veritable encyclopedia when it comes to Kratom!
You have to love a cut and paste......
..... I wouldn't by any Kratom from any head shops because they are way too expensive & are most likely have been sitting in the store for awhile so it is not fresh Kratom.
As a Beginner it will be hard to swallow the Kratom Powder because of the taste of it. The best way to take Kratom is to take a swallow of water in your mouth, then put the powder on top of the water & take another big sip of water & swallow as fast as you can. I would start with a small dose like 2 grams. Then wait 1 hour & see what happens. If nothing happens then take another 2 grams. I wouldn't take no more than 6 grams on your first day. You need to buy a small digital weighing scale for measuring each dose out.
I would only buy Plain Leaf Powder. Stay away from Enhanced or Extracts. They raise your Tolerance level & are very expensive. Also Kratom works Best on an empty stomach like 2+ hours after a meal. With Kratom less is more. So a lower dose will give you energy & a higher dose will relax you more. With the types of Strains Red is for Bed, Green for in Between & White for Flight. Green Malay is probably the best all round Strain for everything. You will just have to Experiment & Experiment some more over time to find your "Magic Dose" & the Strains that work best for you. Kratom also works best when strains are blended together like a 50/50 combo or whatever you want to make. Each Blend will give a different effect. There are also Potentiators that you can take to make Kratom Stronger & to make it Last Longer like Magnesium, Turmeric, Grapes etc. Kratom is a very complex herb. There is so much to Learn about it. If you have any Questions just PM me anytime.
These Vendors I can Highly Recommend:
Christopher's Organic Botanicals
SoCal Herbal Remedies
WHAT IS KRATOM?
Kratom is a deciduous plant native to Southeast Asia (mostly Indonesia). Kratom (also known as Mitragyna Speciosa) is an opioid (not opiate) that hits mainly on the delta receptors in the brain. Although kratom behaves similar to a μ-opioid receptor, it has a much lower potential for addiction and dependency. It results in having much milder effects than opioids like morphine, but is much safer.
I’m not going to hide the fact that you can become addicted to kratom. It’s certainly possible. The good thing is it can be easily avoided with rotating (I’ll get to a minute) and there’s accessible options like washouts (thats for another post soon) to avoid this.
All the different types of effects of kratom falls into 3 different categories..
FAST Energetic – Workout- Productivity- Focus- Sociable- Motivation –Some Euphoria
MODERATE Mix of both Fast & Slow. Some are a bit slower, others are a bit faster. Effects can have a range of any number of qualities
SLOW Kills Anxiety-Very Euphoric-Relaxing- Possible sedative (in higher doses)
BENEFITS OF ALL TYPES
Has been used as an alternative for depression and using SSRI’s
Has helped drug abusers get clean off hard drugs like heroin
Creates a positive attitude/mood
Lowers blood pressure
Treats Premature Ejaculation
How to Know Which Strains Are Fast, Moderate, or Slow
The first indication of speed is to tell is what color it is (it usually shows in the name). Different strains of kratom have different colored veins on the leaf. The colors can be Red (Slow), Green (Moderate), or White (Fast). So a strain like ‘Green Kalimantan’ is a moderate strain from Kalimantan (Indonesia)
This indicator isn't always correct, but in most cases it is.
Another way to find out the speed is the country or province the kratom is from (also often shows it in the name). Generally most strains from Thailand are fast (like a strain called Maeng Da), and most from Bali or Boreno are slow (these strains are usually just called ‘Bali’). Other than those, most strains other are moderate (including some strains which are a blend of different types).
If you’re confused, at the end I show exactly what strains are what speed.
HOW TO TAKE KRATOM
First off, in the community of people who use kratom, they have a specific lingo. Although kratom is legal to buy, possess, and sell- it can’t legally be sold for human consumption since it’s not approved by the FDA. It has to be sold as an incense. Therefore, when talking about ingesting kratom online, people will say ‘burning kratom’ instead of ‘drinking’ or ‘ingesting kratom’. Another word is ‘aroma’ which is the effects that kratom produces when used. Receiving the full benefits of kratom takes time as your Kratom IQ increases. Trial and error is expected a bit when you start using kratom, so don’t worry on getting it perfect in the very beginning.
The kratom you purchase is the leaf all blended up into a powder. You can ingest this (somewhat gross tasting) powder several ways like: Toss n’Wash – Toss the powder in your mouth, take a big sip of water, mix it around in your mouth and then swallow. Efficient but tricky the first few times (this is how I do it- it takes me 5 seconds)
Mix with Water or Juice- Put the powder in a cup, mix it with water/juice (stir well since it doesn’t dissolve easily), then drink it down
Make Tea Out of it- This is the most time consuming way but a lot of people stand by it. Basically you boil the powder in a pot for several minutes, strain the water to remove the powder, and then drink the water (tea). Coffee filters can work. Mix it with Protein Powder- Decent option to help mask the taste.
FIRST TIME BURNING
Take 2-3 grams (some need 2 grams for a solid aroma, others need 5. Best to play it safe. You can always try again later on) If you don’t have a scale, a general rule is that a level teaspoon (not tablespoon) is 2 grams. Use that method to measure Use a moderate strain. These show best what kratom has to offer. Expect it to take around 30 minutes for effects to start working Effects will last 2-4 hours. Peak aroma will be within and around the first hour mark.
Stay Hydrated- This is a crucial step to always take when burning. Kratom dehydrates so make sure you drink plenty of water. Hydration increases the quality of the aroma as well as prolonging its effect
Empty Stomach- Best to burn at least 3 hours after eating. If you plan to burn sooner than that, you may need to add an extra gram to make up for the loss in aroma quality. On the other hand, if it’s first thing in the morning before breakfast, you may want to take a gram less so kratom doesn’t hit you too hard and fast.
Sweet Spot- There’s a sweet spot for kratom on the perfect amount of grams that works best for you. You’ll learn it after a bit of experience with burning. What you’ll often find is that fewer grams can often produce a better aroma than a larger dose.
Burning 2+ times/day- If you burn more than once per day be aware that there is ‘same day tolerance’. For instance if it’s your 2nd burn of the day, you may need to add an extra gram than usual. Then possibly another extra gram if it’s your 3rd burn of the day.
Rotate Kratom – if you notice the quality of your aromas are diminishing, it’s often due to your tolerance increasing. Rotating types of kratom keeps the receptors fresh to reduce tolerance.
Don’t overdo it- Sometimes the aromas take more than 30 minutes to kick in. Other times, it’s because your tolerance is too high. Instead of keep adding many more grams after a dud burn; just wait a couple hours to try again. Taking too much kratom can make you a bit drowsy
ROTATING- REDUCING TOLERANCE
If you burn more than 5 times/week, you should rotate your kratom
Only burn one strain per day. You can burn that one strain as many times as you want, just don’t change it until the next day.
Rotating kratom means alternating types each day. If Monday you have a Slow type, then Tuesday you should either have a Fast or Moderate type. There’s an example in a schedule below
Other than the speed of kratom, it’s also good that the country/province that it comes from is alternated as well. If Wednesday is a Fast Thai strain, Thursday could be a slow Bali strain
If your tolerance gets too high, you can use a ‘wash-out’ method to reduce it. Basically you take a break from kratom, but there’s ways I will talk about soon that makes this easy and more efficient
If you plan to burn regularly, plan out what strains will be used on what days. So this way fast strains will be used on gym days, and slow strain will be used on a day like a Sunday where you just chill out.
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
The most important thing you need to know is that the quality in kratom can vary so much. Most kratom out there isn’t anything special. I’ve tried around a dozen different vendors and only 2 of them could produce the effects described in this guide. A lot of the kratom out there produces a tiny aroma, and even some I’ve tried can give you anxiety (often from head shops). The better vendors remove the stems & veins from the leaf before they blend it; to make sure it’s potent and not full of ‘fillers’. Another concern is the cleanliness. Kratom is picked by workers in Indonesia and other parts of Southeast Asia then put in a bag sit. You never know how well of a cleaning process there is (if any) and if it just sat in a warehouse for months on end.
So often guys try will kratom (from a less than reputable vendor), have a bad or not great experience with it (strain isn’t potent), then just believe that kratom isn’t anything special. This is a big reason why kratom isn’t insanely popular yet (though it’s increasing quickly).
It’s difficult to know if a vendor is good if you don’t have anything to compare it to. The one I use is at the end of this guide. Whether you use my recommendation or not, it’s a good idea to just order a small amount first. Make sure the quality is good and that you respond well to it. Then, you can decide after to get more and/or start rotating.
Avoid extracts- skyrockets your tolerance and creates a strong dependency
Avoid kratom capsules- It’s not that bad but you’ll likely have to pay more for the kratom (the caps) and need to take up to a dozen caps at once
Side Effects- If you burn too much, there is potential for nausea. Most often burning too much means you’ll become a bit drowsy. Other than that the only real thing to be aware of it dependency. Fortunately, this can be easily avoided with washouts and tapering. I do this every 6 months with then taking a bit of a break. It’s not an issue at all with the proper tools. Some say worse case withdrawal is similar to caffeine or a small cold, others say it’s worse. However it is, it’s not comparable to hard drugs. No one has ever died from kratom.
Avoid crushed leaf- Crushed leaf is, as you probably guessed, the kratom leaf crushed down instead of being blended into a powder. To be honest I’ve never actually tried it, but the overall consensus is that it’s not as great. If you like making tea out of kratom, it may not be a bad option.
If you're interested, the original version of the guide is on my site along with a video here, otherwise everything you need to know is in this guide. Cheers
That's It! That's basically all you need to know for now to start taking advantage of what kratom has to offer. I hope kratom has much of a positive impact on your life as it has on mine. Even if you don't adopt the full kratom lifestyle, you'll still likely find at least some use for it for things like relaxing after a long day, getting yourself focused for work, relieving chronic pain, or boosting yourself into a positive mood (like after a recent break-up).
There you go GPE.
How else can we help?
"Fewer faces and more spaces"
WELCOME TO THE BEST KRATOM FORUM EVER, GPE!
I went cold turkey off oxys of varying mgs for the first 12 days. Like Nessa, I was too sick to gag anything down. Then I remembered my kratom (I forgot I got some in my haze of detox) and THINGS GOT BETTER. I would try to get kratom started sooner if doing THAT again, but I run don’t walk when opiates are around now. They essentially make kratom useless for me. Mixing the two works for some. Not me. One opiate and I won’t benefit from kratom for at least 3 days, more like 5.
You’ll find it helpful for easing off the methadone. But it won’t likely be a breeze, as methadone has a longer detox due to long half life compared to heroin or opiates.
I got clean 6 months ago last week (High five on your 8 months, Nessa!)
There is a vendor section to this website with website-approved vendors for safe shopping. Stock up on reds and greens for mixing. Half and half every 2-3 hrs during the early, difficult days. Don’t use near bedtime. You’ll have many sleepless nights for a while. Kratom won’t help much with that until you get dosing figured out. Tiny dose for daytime/energy, higher dose for nighttime/rest. Took me YEARS to stumble upon the sedating aspects of the leaf because I was scared of taking too much (sick sick don’t do that!) Nothing good comes of taking too much. Err on the low side to be able to add to it.
Let us know how your journey is going! See you here in your new brain 🙂
Have a wee bit better day!
Hi I'm not sure how old this thread is because I can't see any dates for the postings on my phone. But here's my story.
When I'm labor with my daughter 5 years ago I was given my first ever opiate. Intra veineous dilaudid. It messed me up to say the least. When I left the hospital 2 days later I was actually in opiate withdrawal. Of course I didn't know that's what it was at the time. Fast forward 6 months I'm done breastfeeding and prescribed the highest oxy dose available because my epidural caused some damage and a lot of pain in my back. Still my doctor has not informed me on what an opiate is or that I will become physically dependent on it. (I should add this is while I'm 19 years old. Up until this I have drank some smoked weed and tried shrooms one time and bath salts once which don't ever do it was terrible.) so after 3 months my doctor stops my script to see how my pain is doing if it has possibly healed. I got so unbelievably sick bout of course I didn't know it was withdrawal. My ex mother in law (who has since overdosed and passed) offered me a line of her oxy as she was snorting. She told me I was "pill sick" so I did and lo and behold I felt better. So this progressed into a horrible addiction. I started using morphine and dilaudid pills and was told to try iv and it would be exactly like what I had in labor. I did and then that was the only way to go. Well I finally moved back to California from Indiana and couldn't find pills. So I was introduced to good ol daecetyl (heroin). The 3 year long addiction that follows is life ruining. Well the last time I went to detox about 4 months ago I left early because I thought I was good. But the meds began to wear off and I was still in withdrawal. So my bf went and got me some Kratom from a headshop. I now use different vendors but at the time I needed something fast. It was actually decent stuff too.Red from better leaf company. I felt better within 20 minutes. Now I use about once or twice a day to help my pain and anxiety and I would 100% suggest to anyone and everyone suffering from opiate addiction.
"Make love singing songs."
Welcome to the best Kratom forum ever, KrystalSangre!
Your story is tragically not new. So glad you found your way out (with help and kratom).
There are quite a few of us actively posting on the boards here, more have come AND GONE after life settled into a new normal. Some keep using kratom (such as myself), some quit kratom and move on. As you know, some go BACK to drugs. Many come here wondering which vendor/strain will get them as giddy as opiates do (none). They vanish to the dark place of elsewhere.
I’m 9 months clean in a week and a half. Had no idea I was “that far gone” until I was very “that far gone”, since all I knew was my depression and pain were amazingly removed when I took opiates. They were MEDICINE for my issues. I didn’t realize I had stopped being an active alcoholic and just SWITCHED DRUGS to opiates, essentially. I still don’t drink now and don’t go near people who do drink (can’t stand the smell now).
Kratom helped me. But I FIRST got clean, undoubtedly like you did in detox. THEN I got kratom (I actually had it on hand while detoxing, but FORGOT while suffering on my journey of 12 days before I used kratom to get LIFE restarted).
It’s STILL difficult. All of my depression, anxiety, and a host of physical problems still exist, but I have the will and the tools to keep fighting. I think kratom keeps me from ever wanting opiates now, and KNOWLEDGE, but that took a bit of time. I attend AA in the morning and NA most every evening. My pain is somewhat managed now, with the help of kratom AND a host of other botanicals.8
I am not sure what sort of advice you’re seeking, but you WILL find good advice here! I’m just posting to let you know you’re in the right place. The others will post, but you might want to ask a specific bit of advice? Otherwise, I’d say you’re doing great if you’re just using kratom. If you’re looking to shop, and recommendations, there is A LOT to read on various vendors and products under VENDORS (see above and toggle to the right) and FIND A VENDOR /RATE A VENDOR. Plus an elite list of vetted and approved vendors are listed under VENDOR also. Those listed have gone the extra 5 miles to assure this forum that they are safe, secure and professional. In Sense has also recently been vetted but the moderator left suddenly before posting his information. It’s here if you want it.
Hope that helps a little. You can probably use a better resource than a head shop by now!
Congratulations on saving your own life!
Not an easy task!
Have a wee bit better day!
Thank you for the warm welcome! I do use much better vendors now lol not sure if they are the top notch but I know they are better than the head shop. But I'm still trying many different ones. I wasn't looking for specific advice I think maybe I misunderstood the thread title and was introducing myself based on that. But I'm so glad to have found this forum and the nice people like yourself that are on it 🙂
"Make love singing songs."